(no subject)

[ewx]

[Poll #311278]

(If you want to quantify this, interpret the questions in terms of mean scores on a hypothetical arithmetic test.)

Comments

[mtbc100.livejournal.com]

I assume that A-level Further Maths and NatSci 1A maths qualifies me as a mathematician by training? Apologies if you only wanted mathmos.

[atreic.livejournal.com]

That's more maths than your average maths degree from Blogsville ex-poly...

[ptc24.livejournal.com]

I assumed that it didn't...

[atreic.livejournal.com]

I feel that I have below average arithmatic, I'm much slower than M at scoring card games, and occasionally stumble over things I've forgotten but used to know (like 8 x 7) And I persistently curse that you're not allowed stupid calculators in Cambridge maths exams as it shouldn't be about your ability to add up / multiply fractions. My gut reaction was to tick your "below average" box.

However, objectively, I am above average for the population by miles. I got full marks on all mental arithmatic tests at school, did brilliently at the non-calculator papers, and so the more I think of it, the more I can't in good faith tick the "I'm bad at arithmatic" box. I'm far more numerate than "average"

I think that it might be that mathmos are worse at arithmatic than the average *Cambridge* person... ie, because we're really intelligent people we're better at arithmatic than average people, because the average is really very low (in fact, I'm better at French than average I suppose, and have an A at GCSE to proove it, but feel really really stupid and can speak practically no French) but that just comes from general "being good at stuff" and not Mathmoness.

[j4.livejournal.com]

below average arithmatic

And spelling...

[senji.livejournal.com]

One of my parents was a mathematician. Does that mean that if she committed suicide...

(For the avoidance of doubt she hasn't)

[aldabra]

Didn't see your qualifier in time. I suspect I'm good at arithmetic in arithmetic tests, but I can't focus on it in shops any more.

[songster.livejournal.com]

I expect almost everyone with good arithmentic fails to realise just how *bad* the average is compared to them.

I remember our GCSE maths paper showing us one of the lowest-level papers. One of the questions showed you a photocopy of the side of a juice carton and asked you to write down how much was in it. Basically, "Can you recognise a number when written?"

And still a significant number of people fail.

[ewx.livejournal.com]

What number is a "significant number"?

[ptc24.livejournal.com]

Yeep! OK, hypothesis: trained mathmos have a level of arithmetic ability similar to that of people with a similar level of general intellegence and education to them but with no mathematical specialisation.

[beckyc.livejournal.com]

I'm not a mathematician by training, but I do have more maths than most non-mathematicians - two A-levels, a degree in physics (v high maths content) and a degree in Computation (again, v high maths content).

[simont]

I've never felt that I have good arithmetic. If I try to work things out in my head, I keep forgetting bits of the numbers I'm working on and having to go back and do it again. And again. And again. I usually get there in the end, but whenever I try to do arithmetic in my head it annoys me how bad I am at it.

That said, at pizza on Mondays I see lots of people around me jotting down their share of the bill on a napkin or a calculator, whereas it's a matter of pride for me to work it out entirely in my head at the start of the meal and keep it in my memory until the time comes to pay, so I suppose if I can do that at all I must count as good by a relative definition.

Mathematicians, well, I wrote "average", but only (as it were) on average. They seem to divide between people with unbelievable mental arithmetic and people who get scared if they see more than one digit at a time in a proof. And I see no reason this shouldn't be the case, since in general there's not much arithmetic to be done in proper maths. (Number theory might be an exception, but I'm not even convinced of that since these days it's probably all about 300-digit primes and not even a souped-up Carol Vorderman could work with those in her head...)

[senji.livejournal.com]

I find I can't remember my pizza bill number during the course of a pizza :).

On the other hand, I'm slightly better than the Vord-at-the-Board at Countdown numbers games, so my mental arithmetic isn't too bad under the right sort of pressure...

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

I have middling (mental) arithmetic by the standards of my friends (almost exclusively university graduates, and a fair proportion in more numerate (undergraduate) disciplines than I), but probably much better by the standards of the population at large. I'm not sure if I'm a mathematician by training, either.

If one defines mathematicians as "people who study mathematics at university" I think that mathematicians should (for both values of should) have above-average arithmetic, because I think they (and anyone else doing university degrees, for that matter) should have above-average intelligence. I'd expect (say) classicists to have above-average mathematics too.

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

*re-reads* Gosh, I hope they never tax parentheses.

[k425.livejournal.com]

That seems to assume that above-average intelligence equates to above-average mathematics. I'm not sure I'd agree that that's the case.

And, as oldbloke keeps telling me, mathematics is not arithmetic.

[gerald_duck]

You missed an option.

I believe that the better a mathematician is, the more polarised their arithmetic ability becomes. A truly great mathematician won't be mediocre at mental arithmetic, they'll be either very good or absolutely atrocious.

mdw, my housemate, is an exception to this rule. He's been an Oxford mathmo, and seems to be merely competent at arithmetic.

This makes a kind of sense to me, but I hold no opinion on whether or not it "ought to" be the case.

[diffrentcolours]

I think that the more you learn about maths, the more you learn things which are completely different to just doing sums. To a mathematician, 8/7 is a correct answer, moreso than 1 1/8 or "about 1.1", both of which are more use to a layperson.

For example: a mathematician knows that the sum of the series from 1 to n is n(n+1)/2 and could fairly trivially tell you the sum of 1 to 100, but couldn't work out 1+2+3+4 faster than the layperson because they'd try to be clever about it :)

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I may not be a mathematician, but isn't 8/7 1 1/7 not 1 1/8?

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I expect mathmos to be good at arithmetic, since very early maths (at school) is mostly arithmetic, and how do you discover a liking/talent for any subject if you're poor at the foundation levels of it? I think they ought to be good at it, being generally bright and intelligent people. Three years of living with one has convinced me that there are whole spheres of mathematics that "have nothing to do with numbers" (from a lay perspective) and therefore I would not be surprised at mathmos with no ability in arithmetic, but I'd still be slightly disappointed, just as I am when I encounter people with appalling spelling.

[k425.livejournal.com]

I was, and remain, poor at arithmetic. I'm pretty poor at maths overall - I worked for three years for a team that set the Key Stage 2 & 3 maths tests. They used me as a guinea pig for some questions. If I could do them, the questions were below level 5, if I couldn't, they were probably above...

Now, I was good at equations with letters in. Right up to the point where I had to start putting numbers back in, then I tended to lose the plot again!

[naath.livejournal.com]

I *said* I was crap, only because I'm much crapper than many other people I know, allthough for many years I was both the only person to remember a calculator for physics class and the person who used it least... (I can do numbers on paper, but not in my head).
Mostely I'm bad at mental 'rithmatic because I can't remember what I've done though...

But doesn't *Everyone* know that mathmos can't count... someone reported shock at haveing had to use a number >10...

doesn't *Everyone* know that mathmos can't count

[ewx.livejournal.com]

It was seeing a variant of that elsewhere that caused me to post the poll...

[teleute.livejournal.com]

But I only got good at arithmetic when I started teaching here. The American kids are taught lots of mental arithmetic, and its so embarrassing to have to reach for the calculator when they're doing the sums in their head. So I was forced to practice, which was the first time I've ever had to do arithmetic.

[ewx.livejournal.com]

Didn't you have to do any at school?