(no subject)

[ewx]

[Poll #311278]

(If you want to quantify this, interpret the questions in terms of mean scores on a hypothetical arithmetic test.)

Comments

[mtbc100.livejournal.com]

I assume that A-level Further Maths and NatSci 1A maths qualifies me as a mathematician by training? Apologies if you only wanted mathmos.

[atreic.livejournal.com]

That's more maths than your average maths degree from Blogsville ex-poly...

[atreic.livejournal.com]

I feel that I have below average arithmatic, I'm much slower than M at scoring card games, and occasionally stumble over things I've forgotten but used to know (like 8 x 7) And I persistently curse that you're not allowed stupid calculators in Cambridge maths exams as it shouldn't be about your ability to add up / multiply fractions. My gut reaction was to tick your "below average" box.

However, objectively, I am above average for the population by miles. I got full marks on all mental arithmatic tests at school, did brilliently at the non-calculator papers, and so the more I think of it, the more I can't in good faith tick the "I'm bad at arithmatic" box. I'm far more numerate than "average"

I think that it might be that mathmos are worse at arithmatic than the average *Cambridge* person... ie, because we're really intelligent people we're better at arithmatic than average people, because the average is really very low (in fact, I'm better at French than average I suppose, and have an A at GCSE to proove it, but feel really really stupid and can speak practically no French) but that just comes from general "being good at stuff" and not Mathmoness.

[senji.livejournal.com]

One of my parents was a mathematician. Does that mean that if she committed suicide...

(For the avoidance of doubt she hasn't)

[aldabra]

Didn't see your qualifier in time. I suspect I'm good at arithmetic in arithmetic tests, but I can't focus on it in shops any more.

[songster.livejournal.com]

I expect almost everyone with good arithmentic fails to realise just how *bad* the average is compared to them.

I remember our GCSE maths paper showing us one of the lowest-level papers. One of the questions showed you a photocopy of the side of a juice carton and asked you to write down how much was in it. Basically, "Can you recognise a number when written?"

And still a significant number of people fail.

[j4.livejournal.com]

below average arithmatic

And spelling...

[ptc24.livejournal.com]

I assumed that it didn't...

[ewx.livejournal.com]

What number is a "significant number"?

[beckyc.livejournal.com]

I'm not a mathematician by training, but I do have more maths than most non-mathematicians - two A-levels, a degree in physics (v high maths content) and a degree in Computation (again, v high maths content).

[angua.livejournal.com]

You know I don't think that most of the ex-polys are that bad.

I went to one and whilst I didn't do a maths degree the one I got I worked hard for and am proud of the uni that I went to.

Sorry I wasn't bright enough to get in to a 'real' university.

[songster.livejournal.com]

In 2003, the Maths results included a 4% complete fail rate (grade U), and 16.6% getting F or lower.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/education/03/exam_results/gcses/html/18.stm

[simont]

I've never felt that I have good arithmetic. If I try to work things out in my head, I keep forgetting bits of the numbers I'm working on and having to go back and do it again. And again. And again. I usually get there in the end, but whenever I try to do arithmetic in my head it annoys me how bad I am at it.

That said, at pizza on Mondays I see lots of people around me jotting down their share of the bill on a napkin or a calculator, whereas it's a matter of pride for me to work it out entirely in my head at the start of the meal and keep it in my memory until the time comes to pay, so I suppose if I can do that at all I must count as good by a relative definition.

Mathematicians, well, I wrote "average", but only (as it were) on average. They seem to divide between people with unbelievable mental arithmetic and people who get scared if they see more than one digit at a time in a proof. And I see no reason this shouldn't be the case, since in general there's not much arithmetic to be done in proper maths. (Number theory might be an exception, but I'm not even convinced of that since these days it's probably all about 300-digit primes and not even a souped-up Carol Vorderman could work with those in her head...)

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

I have middling (mental) arithmetic by the standards of my friends (almost exclusively university graduates, and a fair proportion in more numerate (undergraduate) disciplines than I), but probably much better by the standards of the population at large. I'm not sure if I'm a mathematician by training, either.

If one defines mathematicians as "people who study mathematics at university" I think that mathematicians should (for both values of should) have above-average arithmetic, because I think they (and anyone else doing university degrees, for that matter) should have above-average intelligence. I'd expect (say) classicists to have above-average mathematics too.

[ptc24.livejournal.com]

Yeep! OK, hypothesis: trained mathmos have a level of arithmetic ability similar to that of people with a similar level of general intellegence and education to them but with no mathematical specialisation.

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

*re-reads* Gosh, I hope they never tax parentheses.

[addedentry.livejournal.com]

... or you'd find yourself in an upper bracket.

[gerald_duck]

You missed an option.

I believe that the better a mathematician is, the more polarised their arithmetic ability becomes. A truly great mathematician won't be mediocre at mental arithmetic, they'll be either very good or absolutely atrocious.

mdw, my housemate, is an exception to this rule. He's been an Oxford mathmo, and seems to be merely competent at arithmetic.

This makes a kind of sense to me, but I hold no opinion on whether or not it "ought to" be the case.

[senji.livejournal.com]

I find I can't remember my pizza bill number during the course of a pizza :).

On the other hand, I'm slightly better than the Vord-at-the-Board at Countdown numbers games, so my mental arithmetic isn't too bad under the right sort of pressure...

[k425.livejournal.com]

You probably make up for it by being able to spell 'arithmetic' and 'prove'...

[k425.livejournal.com]

That seems to assume that above-average intelligence equates to above-average mathematics. I'm not sure I'd agree that that's the case.

And, as oldbloke keeps telling me, mathematics is not arithmetic.

[pseudomonas.livejournal.com]

I'd think it likely that intelligence (and education) correlates somewhat with skill at arithmetic.
Would you agree with the statement "A university graduate has an above-average likelihood of being numerate"?

[angua.livejournal.com]

They were very kind, they taught me to read and write and everything at Blogsville ex-poly ;)

[diffrentcolours]

I think that the more you learn about maths, the more you learn things which are completely different to just doing sums. To a mathematician, 8/7 is a correct answer, moreso than 1 1/8 or "about 1.1", both of which are more use to a layperson.

For example: a mathematician knows that the sum of the series from 1 to n is n(n+1)/2 and could fairly trivially tell you the sum of 1 to 100, but couldn't work out 1+2+3+4 faster than the layperson because they'd try to be clever about it :)

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

Ah, but remember, we were at the Officially Best Ex-Poly there is. ;-)