ewx: (Default)
[personal profile] ewx

Apropos of this article.

[Poll #701581]

Notes:

  • If you're in a monogamous relationship then answer as if you were not - i.e. I'm asking about your opinion about the activity in general not about your current situation.
  • "Morally wrong for everybody" means you think nobody should do it. "Morally wrong for you but OK for other people" means you'd think you were being bad if you did it but wouldn't necessarily think the same of someone else doing it. "OK for everybody" means you wouldn't think anyone, including yourself, was being bad for it (even if they themselves would).
  • You can think it's distateful, or indication of something missing, without necessarily also thinking it's wrong.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Sorry -- I swear I'm not being deliberately obtuse! I feel like you're shouting "morally wrong" when I just said I wasn't quite sure how you're using it.

As far as I can tell, you really did mean morally wrong, and I'm sorry I didn't see it, that was just unexpected to me. It feels like that's avoiding asking a question. For instance, suppose someone posts a poll that says "Is it morally wrong if I self harm?" My literal answer is "no". But the answer I want to give is "No, but it's not a good idea! Please try to avoid it if you can!"

If I wanted to ask that moral question, I've come to decide I would have to specifiy explicitly that most people (or some people) think it's a bad idea to sidestep that.

The casual sex example is more complicated because people will also disagree about whether it is unwise.

I'm sorry, does that make any sense?
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com
But I'm not asking if I should go and have casual sex (or self-harm or whatever); I'm asking a purely hypothetical question. The context was a news article, not my own sex life. I thought that the specific language and the hypothetical nature would be enough to override the (agreed, in other contexts far from unnatural) tendency to expand the question if it was actually about specifics (and I still think this l-)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
I couldn't see the original research, but I'm not at all sure the news article meant to distinguish casual sex being "morally wrong" from "icky", "I would never do it, and don't like people who do", "unwise", "bad for you" or any of the other sorts of wrong I considered.

I would have expected *their* poll to be phrased so that people who answered your poll with "I clicked 'no' with a heavy heart because it's not OK, but I suppose it must be *morally* ok," would have been in the same category as "immoral" people.

Do you not think so?
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com
The news article means it's a hypothetical question rather than about me or a friend. The explicit distinction of 'morally' wrong is right there in the question I asked.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
The news article means it's a hypothetical question rather than about me or a friend.

Fair enough, that's a good point. (Though while I wouldn't feel it necessary to state my own opinon urgently -- I trust your judgement of if you should have sex :) -- I still felt compelled to be complete in my answer.)

The explicit distinction of 'morally' wrong is right there in the question I asked.

Yeah, but I'm still not sure if

(i) You intended to answer a subtly different question to the ones in the research you linked to, and don't think that should be confusing
(ii) You think I'm drawing unnescessary distinctions between your questions and their questions
(iii) You think my interpretation of the poll was wrong...
ext_8103: (Default)
From: [identity profile] ewx.livejournal.com
Well, I don't know exactly what question was asked in the reported research, and I imagine nor do most of my readers. I only wanted people to answer the question I was asking, not some possibly different but in fact unknown alternative question. Oh to be taken literally for once! l-)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Well, fair enough. And I think most people did.

OK, mainly I'm confused by which question you chose. I would have thought "Do you think it's ever ok to have casual sex?" was the obvious question, and "morally wrong" as more interesting for what it tells you about moral beliefs in general than on this issue; but then that view depends on my prejudgement of what my friends *do* think, so it's not necessarily right.
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
PS. I'm sorry, I hope I'm not becoming overwrought? (I can never tell when I might be taking something too seriously or have sezied on irrelevent details. Maybe I should over what I was trying to say before.)

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