Mirren

[ewx]

Does anyone agree with Helen Mirren? Or Anne Widdecombe (do the Conservatives reject the label “the party of law and order” now then?)

What's she asking for? A cup of tea?

...well, why not? Hasn't she heard the REM song?

Comments

[bellinghman.livejournal.com]

Human sexuality is an absolute minefield, so let's start tiptoeing and try not to get blown up.

Ideally, if either person says no, even at the last moment, then that should be it: stop. (This might have the additional effect that teenage pregnancy rates drop substantially and, backdated far enough, might obviate the damage to the planet caused by human evolution...). The problem is that that 'ideally' assumes that the signals are unambiguous, and if there's one time that signals are all too often ambiguous, it's during the circumstances Mirren mentions.

Rape is often held to be a crime motivated by an attempt to assert power over someone else rather than about sex. I think that's a pretty fair view, but while it may be valid for stranger rape, or marital rape, I don't think it really fits the date rape model.

(As for the 'when is the last second' question, that's even harder. Is it just before penetration, or can it be somewhat later?)

[keirf.livejournal.com]

I guess there is a point when "No" changes to "Stop". But then again, "Stop means stop".

[bellinghman.livejournal.com]

A good point.

On the other hand, there's a potential gradient of grey in there: if one has been having good sex for twenty minutes, one partner has been getting sore, says "Stop now, please", and the other continues for another 30 seconds, is that still rape? Now, what about 3 seconds?

And what if that extra 30 seconds is because it takes time for a communication to become obvious? (OK, so 30 seconds to get the message may be somewhat on the obtuse side.) Should we all follow the example of BDSM afficionados and always agree safe words? ('No' and 'stop' are not usually candidates for safe words.)

[dave holland (from livejournal.com)]

That might tend towards sexually-aggravated assault rather than rape.

IANAL